Thinking out of the box bringing a broader point of view_Interview with Ing-Sheng Tsay, Director of TaiPower Renewable Development Division

The process of exploration is not as easy as people may think, yet intangible values are also created.

Ing-Sheng Tsay, Director of TaiPower Renewable Development Division

By Xin-En Wu

　　"I have a personality that being curious about many things," stated Ing-Sheng Tsay, the Director of the Department of Renewable Energy of Taiwan Power Company (TaiPower). "Take food as an example, some people keep visiting the same restaurant if they find the food there is delicious. As for me, I would taste all kinds of food out of curiosity. If it is good, then I'd say 'OK! That's not bad!' then move on. I'm always interested in trying new things. After trying it, I would like to understand how it works." Having civil engineering in his education background, Tsay entered TaiPower as soon as he graduated. "Maybe because of my personality, during my career in TaiPower, I continued studying about different fields and professional knowledge, such as law and information, especially the power business," Tsay said. Back when there was limited access to obtain information, he had to enroll in continuing education to acquire more information and knowledge whenever he found something novel and interesting. "The process of exploration is not as easy as people may think. I wasn't driven by the enthusiasm that much, it's only curiosity," Tsay noted.

　　For instance, why choose law for continuing education? Tsay pointed out that engineering seems to be quite straightforward, where the only key is to apply the techniques. "We've learned everything about techniques at school, but after I started supervising the engineering projects, I realized the suppliers were not communicating for the techniques, but the contracts," Tsay said.

　　Contract provisions may seem to have covered everything, but the key is how to implement them practically. For instance, when it comes to compensation, in what situation should it take place? Should the contract or the law be applied? "Such negotiation processes are always intriguing. I remember back when I was supervising engineering, a construction company hired an in-house lawyer to negotiate the contents of the contracts. It was that time when I realized that society has gradually shifted toward specialists with dual professions. For example, this person is a lawyer who is an expert in engineering, which means he or she might be qualified both as a lawyer and an engineer, now that's impressive!" Tsay said. "I study law and the field of intellectual property rights. I feel that I am really lucky to work at TaiPower, which allows me to learn many abilities and to change my professional role."

　　From design planning to supervision of construction, and now in maintenance and management, Tsay was involved in all stages of TaiPower's engineering projects. "At that time, there was an internal transfer regarding a position to be the special assistant of the Chairman, and I'm glad that I was considered."

TaiPower: An Organization Where the Conflicting Structure Must Reconcile

　　When working as a special assistant, Tsay's experiences brought him brand-new insights. Tsay explained that TaiPower is in a very interesting place, as it is practically a government unit, yet it still needs to comply with the regulations of the Company Act. This means the company must consider both the regulations of public-owned businesses and the Company Act. "The term management is particularly interesting in the public-owned business system. Many enterprises can be flexible when tackling issues, yet it is not that easy for a public-owned company," Tsay stated. "TaiPower operates as a company, yet it still needs to follow all the publicown policies. TaiPower has been trying to maintain a balance in between."

　　After Tsay's term as Chairman's special assistant ended, he was transferred again to a unique industrial department in TaiPower: the New Business Development Office.

　　"For me, it was another completely new field. The New Business Development Office aims at land development and asset repurposing, which are not easy for TaiPower," Tsay explained. The socalled "New Business" has two primary approaches "One is to expand the company's expertise, which is considered a new business. The other approach does not require TaiPower to create another business entity, as it can just collaborate with another company. TaiPower's re-investment can be deemed as a new business.

　　From a private company's perspective, when venturing into a new business opportunity, assigning a person to lead a team in charge of it will initiate the project. "TaiPower is different. As a public-owned company, specific tasks must already be present before applying to set up a new team and distribute the manpower to execute it. When I entered the New Business Development Office, there were many plans I intuitively thought to be reasonable, only to suffer endless obstacles during the execution," Tsay recalled. "On the other hand, the New Business Development Office is the only unit in TaiPower that bears no power supply responsibility. This allows me to understand new possibilities for TaiPower's operation."

　　Although the New Business Development Office's major business was land development, Tsay took a step further and started thinking about values. "What would an ordinary company want when it's involved in land development? Profits. One must think about what kind of land development can bring the highest value. However, we adjusted the approach," Tsay explained. "When we speak of values, we're considering both tangible and intangible values. Tangible values refer to the price reaching a certain standard, but we also need some input that must not be misplaced. It must be related with power itself to make this land development to be TaiPower's land development rather than any private companies."

Creating intangible values that can be connected with TaiPower: The birth of TPCreative

　　Later, Tsay started pondering another challenge. "Apart from the connection with the power industry, we want people to feel the friendlier side of TaiPower while connecting with our professionalism. This is how TPCreative was created, a fascinating idea indeed," Tsay said. "Think about it. The annual revenue of TaiPower is immense, which means a stable cash flow, so what should be the main purpose of TPCreative? Profits? As one may first think of the cultural and creative industry, our main focus is the designs."

　　Cultural and creative businesses are very popul ar in Taiwan, but many stores are only decorated for a bit, displaying a mug with somewhat distinctive designs and the store's logo, and that's the full story. One day, Tsay realized that integrating with the concept of "circular economy" may introduce more opportunities to TPCreative. "The public may not know this, but TaiPower has always been practicing the recycling of resources, an example is that as we adjusted our operation to re-use the coal ash produced during power generation," Tsay stated. "Generally, the processed coal ash can be bided, maybe for the cement industry or others, yet barely anyone knows about this, people may even feel that it has nothing to do with their lives. So, we tried other approaches, like adding the coal ash to the park trees as fertilizer. We added signs stating that it's part of TaiPower's circular economy project, but barely anyone would notice this as well.

　　This is where Tsay got the idea. Despite the popularity of the cultural and creative industry, the concept of a circular economy might still be absent. "We evaluated in many perspectives. For instance, if people choose glaze art as a high-end gift, the receiving end would know that it is valuable, they would admire the appearance and find it fascinating, but there would be nothing more to it. Suppose we provide a gift that triggers the interest of others and then add in a story related to TaiPower, a different sensation will be created, and the one who received the gift would have a deeper feeling. Therefore, we thought that this cultural and creative project seems to be viable."

TPCreative's business model

　　TaiPower's cash flow can reach billions or even trillions of TWD each month. How much profit came from TPCreative? "When realizing this project, many people questioned TaiPower's intention, even employees of TaiPower find it confusing," Tsay said. "However, we were aware that intangible values are greater than tangible ones. Even as a public-owned company, we still need to calculate the rate of return. What we did was to combine the tangible and intangible values, showing others that it was a worthy investment."

　　Here comes the problem, how can you define and calculate the value, even with just the tangible part? Tsay came up with the idea of the which was sold by bids. Instead of discarding the unsold coal ash, it might serve as the material for TPCreative's products. The possibility of extra income may exist anywhere, such as the crossbar under the electricity pole or other commonly discarded materials. "This is the part we come into since the concept of the circular economy wasn't complete. The real practices of the circular economy should start at the very beginning before the production of the material or object, proceeding with the future in mind. That is how a complete circular economy life cycle is achieved," Tsay explained. "However, TPCreative cannot participate in it from the very beginning. The most we could do is start from the middle stage: to intervene when the material is about to be discarded."

　　After ensuring the source of the raw material, the next challenge was whether the material was recyclable. "Our goal is very simple: I want the public to feel it. I want the material to be stable and the manpower to sell the products. I was not sure how the public would receive it, but at least someone would buy it, which is TaiPower itself. However, if TaiPower utilizes the products made by itself, this is no longer a business model, but an expenditure," Tsay said. "The way I think is if TaiPower has a budget for gifts, will it be possible for TaiPower to buy them from TaiPower? TaiPower is also responsible for the treatment of discarded objects and materials. Instead of buying the gift from other suppliers, why not directly buy it from TaiPower? If the products are good enough, the management will be willing to gift the cultural and creative products to other people. As we satisfy the needs, the source of income will be secured."

　　The concept implies the combination of different approaches, allowing my colleagues to understand and learn the values we're trying to convey. Also, I wanted them to enjoy the process The fields involved were all uncharted water for Tsay and his team, yet through the implementation new project, the intangible values have begun to accumulate. "Starting from having zero ability to doing it right, we kept expanding our knowledge as new ideas emerged, eager to learn more," Tsay noted. "The more we taught ourselves, the more capability we presented to the new business operations. Many intangible values are already gradually building up through our process of learning.

Department of Renewable Energy: Open yourself first

　　After leaving the New Business Development Office, Tsay's new mission is to lead the Department of Renewable Energy. "I was thrilled to encounter more challenges from the new fields. The Department of Renewable Energy covers the only field where the public-owned company must compete with other private companies while being limited to the existing system for TaiPower. It is very difficult to find the right balance," Tsay affirmed. "I believe that renewable energy is mainly about integration. The technology is essential, but the key is to integrate the resources with flexibility."

　　Speaking of renewable energy, Tsay indicated that TaiPower has a unique role in Taiwan, but what is the role of the Department of Renewable Energy? First, if the government launches green energy development projects, will it want TaiPower to compete with the private sector? "Since we're TaiPower, people would suspect that we probably shouldn't get a piece of the green energy market. We usually say that we would 'avoid competing with the private sector,' yet such a concept may not be feasible in the Department of Renewable Energy. For example, when a company wants to negotiate for land, it can reach an agreement with the landlord. However, that's not TaiPower's case, as we need to go through the strict official procedure," Tsay explained. "Being limited by the role of a public-owned company, we cannot bid on the land from others, and landlords mostly lose their patience halfway through our procedure. Thus, in terms of competitiveness, TaiPower needs some improvement."

　　Tsay explained that the Department of Renewable Energy uses two standards to calculate its performance: one is the cost, and the other is the performance calculation with the feed-in tariff and ordinary rate based on the development volume. "However, it is not appropriate for TaiPower, a public-owned company, to seize more volume for better performance. Being a public-owned company, the major responsibility of TaiPower is to provide a stable power supply to the public, but not compete with the private sector for green energy development," Tsay explained. "Under the premise of less relative interests, TaiPower can get involved with other approaches, such as our ongoing support for the development of related laws. Also maybe TaiPower can be more active in discussions with the private sector as another green power developer, resolving problems through policy suggestions."

　　Tsay further indicated that TaiPower enters the market, it's even harder for private sectors to deal with financing. Due to such consideration, it is not appropriate for the Department of Renewable Energy to compete for market share. TaiPower will only try projects where the private sector fears not being profitable enough or holds back due to certain reasons.

　　He further provides the example of agro photovoltaic projects. Sunlight is vital for all agricultural lands, yet what would happen when it is covered by solar panels? When it is not possible to change the agricultural land purpose, yet the landowners insist on multi-purposes for their land, how do we deal with it? Construct solar above the farmhouses while the plantation continues below? Results can only be obtained through testing, and profit is never the goal for testing. Thus, the government wanted TaiPower to take on such challenges. TaiPower thus started striving for progress, and the process may stimulate other new business entry points where the private sector can take over for further development, which meant the creation of new opportunities. Thus, TaiPower's renewable energy development progresses with the following concept: profitability shall not be neglected, while benefits for the overall development shall be the main focus.

Thinking out of the government agency

　　Government agencies had a very clear principle in the past: You should confirm whether there are regulations before doing things. If there's no regulation, you can't do it; if there is a regulation, it depends on what the regulation shows, if it is negative, you still can't do it. Tsay explained, "Compared with the previous thinking of public agencies, now we are developing renewable energy in TaiPower. If we continue to promote the case site according to the same model, it will be difficult to do. Because renewable energy is a new industry, there are no regulations, and no regulations can be found. Our current thinking should be adjusted to: Is there a rule that can follow? If there is, do it. If not, can you still do it? We need to examine what the regulations say cannot be done. It is possible that the direction and related fields of the enterprises are different from now, so there are some restrictions on the determination. What if the regulations tend to be unreasonable? We have to change the rules; if there is no rule to do it, it means it can be done. What if there are no rules to do it but people dare not do it? We make a rule ourselves, then let the supervisor agree to become a rule that can be done."

　　We often encourage our colleagues that when they see a problem, what they think is not "Forget it, that can't be done", but "If you do this, is this law and regulation good for the industry? Is it wrong? If not, how do you convince the supervisor that the law can be adjusted?"

Think what others can't think of, do what others can't do

　　In addition to being permitted by law, supervisor approval is also required in many cases. In the State-Owned Enterprises system, the support of the superior is very important. "We are fortunate that the director of the Renewable Energy Division is the vice president in charge of strategy and administration. He has a different mindset. His idea of supporting us in construction and development is more open-mind, not only focusing on power generation efficiency but looking beyond. TaiPower has gathered many people from different fields, and it is more important to assign tasks that suit his attributes according to their characteristics. Some people are suitable for innovation, some people are suitable for behind-the scenes support. Many things can see more faces, give more meaning and a sense of accomplishment. Tsay believes "There is an Internet celebrity called 'Aliang Looking for Talents' recently, and Aliang is the head of the strategy development team of the Renewable Energy Department. On the premise of doing well in his own business, we discovered his characteristics and then pushed him. He also got a sense of accomplishment from it. We're just directing him another way. It is actually quite interesting to expect us to have a mind of multi-aspect development, multi-learning, and try everything."

TaiPower's Role on the net-zero Path

　　Tsay said that TaiPower plays a very important role in the promotion of net-zero in Taiwan, because "electricity" is a very crucial factor.

　　However, it is a big challenge for TaiPower to implement net-zero in 2050. The government encourages the private sector to invest in the development of renewable energy. In response to this trend, TaiPower is trying to control all the variables. "TaiPower must supply stable power supply. With so many renewable energy sources coming in, TaiPower must pay more attention to the security of the power grid. How to do it so that everyone can connect to the grid without any worries? It takes a lot of thought on this matter alone. Besides, because of the net zero, the consumption of coal and gas is bound to be reduced. When the proportion is reduced, it can't respond to the intermittent state of renewable energy on time. This is not an easy task, but it is our goal we have been striving for," Tsay said.

　　"But we may not be too pessimistic. The learning curve of mankind has advanced too much. In 2050, there is a high probability of new energy methods being developed. Perhaps our current troubles will be insignificant in 20 years. I believe there will be a lot of variables during this time. Variables will change, and new models will also change. For example, to develop electricity, we used to build power plants to fill the gap, but now the idea is different. With the development of information and communication, we consider more about energy regulation and management to make electricity more efficient, which is also a way," Tsay thinks.

　　Talking about the energy policy, he jokingly said: Everyone likes to compare with Japan. "When I was in the new business development office, my colleagues and I went to Japan, mainly to understand hydrogen energy." he said.

　　Tsay recalled that he always felt that many people said that hydrogen energy was developing very fast in Japan, and there were even hydrogen energy vehicles running, so why didn't Taiwan need it? "At that time, I went to Japan to fully understand the development of hydrogen energy in Japan: the Japanese government set refueling stations to encourage the construction of hydrogen energy. Although it works well, be honest, the frequency of use is not high, probably only one or two cars a day. They also acknowledge that advocacy outweighs substance. I found that the development of everything has its own idea of belonging to land."

　　Compared with the Japanese government, Taiwan or TaiPower seems to be less effective, because the development of hydrogen energy vehicles is a necessary and worthwhile industry for Japan. "The territory of Japan is long and narrow. When developing electric vehicles in the early days, take Taiwan as an example. Taiwan is about 350 to 400 kilometers from south to north, which is just enough for a trip in terms of battery reserves, but for Japan, such a battery capacity cannot support it, so they need hydrogen cars. Even in terms of electric vehicles, Japan is different from other countries. In addition to hydrogen energy vehicles, the other is hydrogen energy battery hybrid, which has a lot to do with Japan's size, and then developed a set of models." Tsay explained.

　　"Let's look back at the essence. If Taiwan really needs hydrogen energy, what is the key point of Taiwan's need for this industry? I think we should carefully consider the needs that meet our own attributes," Tsay said. Renewable energy has become a trend on the road to energy transformation, and the relevant supporting measures and implementation are based on the practice in the ordinary process of taking root.

　　Tsay believes that a blueprint must be developed before the implementation of the goal. With the blueprint, we can know what challenges must be overcome in the future. But after drawing the blueprint, you don't have to worry too much about whether it is achievable, because the situation must be continuously and dynamically revised, and constantly adjusted according to the situation in Taiwan.

　　"With human wisdom, even if it feels challenging in execution now, it may be easy to achieve in the future. Human awareness of the protection of the earth and the environment will only get higher and higher. It is just a matter of how to handle it in terms of implementation. This is a topic that every generation has to face," said Tsay.